Repair of naughty hammer piano(Soviet hammer piano)
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Maximillyan
Full Member
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 74
Loc: KZ
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maxim_tuner demonstrates how in some cases, you can manually correct work of a hammer. The piano "Elegy" hammer "sol1" octave had incomplete return after kick. The fact that the hammer was pressed on the axle without the necessary clearance happened. And, like the stiffness did not give the full trajectory of the hammer. maxim_tuner dismantles the hammer out of his seat (twist with a screwdriver) and his a small rocking from side to side provides the necessary gap between the axle and the hole hammer. For more convincing performance with a hammer outside the fork causes a drop of machine oil. Then screwed into the hammer is already renovated and shows a complete his work.
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=S78RHaeIl48
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A=440
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Supply
2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 2048
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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The correct repair of a tight pin is to re-pin the flange. Lubrication may help if the tightness is not severe, but machine oil is definitely the wrong type of lubricant.
Machine oil should be kept far, far away from a piano action. This repair will most likely be temporary, the hammer will become sluggish again as the oil gums up. Now, the whole bushing has been contaminated and the problem has just grow
Jurgen Goering
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Loren D
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 1285
Loc: PA
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Why machine oil? Why not 5W-20 synthetic blend to keep the action running at peak performance between oil changes?
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JohnSprung
Loc: Reseda, California
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Liquid lubricants of any kind are a mistake. Even if they didn't evaporate and turn to gum, they'd still trap dust due to surface tension.-- J.S.
Knabe Grand # 10927
Kawai FS690
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accordeur
Full Member
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 306
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Originally Posted By: BDB
To be fair, we do not know what sort of lubricant was used. If the original poster used some sort of translation service, or even a Russian-English dictionary, whatever he used may have been translated as machine oil.
Yes, and Maxymillian seems very well intentioned. He obviously knows bridle straps, flanges, keys etc... and his way around an action.
I have an extra bottle of protek that I would gladly send him.
So Max, get a real translator, and you will enjoy this forum.
All the best.
_________________________
Jean Poulin
Musicien, accordeur et technicien
www.jeanpoulinpiano.com (work in progress)
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daniokeeper
Loc: PA
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Originally Posted By: BDB
To be fair, we do not know what sort of lubricant was used. If the original poster used some sort of translation service, or even a Russian-English dictionary, whatever he used may have been translated as machine oil.
Maximillyan does seems like a good person and a knowledgeable technician.
Like BDB and the other folks here have posted, the issue was probably with the translation.
Edited by daniokeeper (08/18/11 11:53 PM)
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
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DoelKees
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Originally Posted By: daniokeeper
Originally Posted By: BDB
To be fair, we do not know what sort of lubricant was used. If the original poster used some sort of translation service, or even a Russian-English dictionary, whatever he used may have been translated as machine oil.
Maximillyan does seems like a good person and a knowledgeable technician.
Like BDB and the other folks here have posted, the issue was probably with the translation.
My Russian is not great but in the video I clearly hear "machine oil".
Kees
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Maximillyan
Loc: KZ
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Dear piano/s texnics thank you watched the clip. In Kazakhstan, the piano is a vanishing species. Is the development of national music (nomadic) and dombra kobyz now. Piano/s texnics work only in the provincial cities. Simple Russian people are forced to vegetate and just make the bread. Typically, the owners of the Soviet piano is poor people and they do not have the money to set up. What kind of high-quality repair can be discussed? I have to reinvent the wheel, so at least something right.
I do not agree that a drop of machine oil on the edges of the pin in the future can have a negative impact on the undercarriage of a hammer. The practice refutes all of your arguments. If you carefully watch the clip, I was able to movements from side to side to get the hammer to work fully. A drop of lube for extra coverage. I must say that the Soviet hammer and design and its fixation is essentially different from the classic western. In the Soviet hammer piano (his sleeve) is pressed and it can not be fixed with screws. Sincerely,Maximillyan
IN GOD WE TRUST
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A=440
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Mark R.
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
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Originally Posted By: accordeur
Originally Posted By: JohnSprung
Liquid lubricants of any kind are a mistake. Even if they didn't evaporate and turn to gum, they'd still trap dust due to surface tension.
I guess Protek would be the exception?
From my understanding as a chemist, it should be.
Protek is a solution of fluorinated polymers (similar to Teflon (TM) ) in fluorinated solvents. Once the solvents evaporate, it's as though you had coated the bearing surfaces with a thin film of teflon-like solid lubricant. This shouldn't attract any dust. Protek is applied in the liquid form, but it's actually a dry lubricant.
I've seen what oil can do to an action over the years - not a pretty sight. My very first piano (may it rest in pieces) was an example, for those interested, you can see a picture here and here (gum all over the flange). You can enlarge the pictures.
Edited by Mark R. (08/18/11 05:43 AM)
Edit Reason: added second pic
Piano, church organ, viola, tuba.
Beginner technician.
1922 Zimmermann 49" project piano, 1970 44" Ibach.
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Mark R.
500 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 941
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
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Originally Posted By: MaximillyanI must say that the Soviet hammer and design and its fixation is essentially different from the classic western. In the Soviet hammer piano (his sleeve) is pressed and it can not be fixed with screws.
Sorry, I still don't understand this.
I see no difference between screwed and pressed designs. In all of the hammer designs that I have seen, the actual "hinge" motion happens between
1) a metal pin (centre pin) and
2) one or more a cloth bushings that sit in the flange or other mounting part.
_________________________
Piano, church organ, viola, tuba.
Beginner technician.
1922 Zimmermann 49" project piano, 1970 44" Ibach.
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Gregor
Full Member
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 326
Loc: Münster, Germany
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Originally Posted By: Mark R.
In all of the hammer designs that I have seen, the actual "hinge" motion happens between
1) a metal pin (centre pin) and
2) one or more a cloth bushings that sit in the flange or other mounting part.
I am not sure if I got all that discussion right (due to my poor English). But I think we are talking about a design without hammer butt screws (Plättchenschraube in German). Not so unusual for cheap pianos.
Gregor piano tech - tuner - dealer
Münster, Germany
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rysowers
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 1726
Loc: Olympia, WA
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Originally Posted By: Johnkie
Try as I may, I do not feel that someone who posts a link to a video showing such an outlandish "repair" can ever be considered a piano technician. If however, the video was meant as a joke .... I failed to regard it as such. I am always prepared to help anyone if they ask for advice, but when such videos are posted on a technicians forum, I consider it only right to respond to the technician's example of dubious professionalism.
This is a place of sharing and discussion, and condescending remarks only reflect upon the arrogance and intolerance of the responder. I am finding Max's posts fascinating. When would any of us get to see how a Russian Tech approaches his work. By being insulting, you possibly close the door on this opportunity, and everyone loses.
There are many fixes in the past that would not be considered appropriate by today's standards in the U.S. There are some procedures in the U.S today that are considered dubious in Europe.
By the way, Dan Silverwood, I want to thank you for your thoughtful remarks on this thread as well. Cheers!
"The smallest changes are the hardest to make"
Ryan Sowers, RPT
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, Washington
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Withindale
Loc: Suffolk, England
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Originally Posted By: Gregor
[quote=Mark R.]But I think we are talking about a design without hammer butt screws (Plättchenschraube in German). Not so unusual for cheap pianos.
Yes, Gregor, that is what I understood. If manufacturing tolerances are not close enough, some hammers will be stiff, or prone to be stiff due to humidity, dust, and so on.
Does anyone have a close-up image of such a design or a link to one?
Ian
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Mark R.
500 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 941
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
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But that is my whole point, Gregor:
What does it matter in terms of lubrication whether the hammer uses a butt screw or the center pin is pressed through the bird's eye? Don't both systems use cloth bushings to bear the movement of the hammer? Why should lubrication with oil be any more tolerable if there is no butt plate?
_________________________
Piano, church organ, viola, tuba.
Beginner technician.
1922 Zimmermann 49" project piano, 1970 44" Ibach.
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#1740245 - 08/25/11 08:26 AM Re: Repair of naughty hammer piano(Soviet hammer piano)
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Withindale
Full Member
Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Suffolk, England
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Mark
Admittedly lubricants that attract dust can be disastrous to any form of equipment, including pianos, but isn't the discussion missing the main point?
I'm not sure Max asked a question as such, but he did indicate that some sideways movement released the hammer and the oil was for good measure.
In my limited experience, I have seen hammers with extra friction at the flange/pin due to (a) rough surfaces on the butt rubbing against the flange and (b) an accumulation of dirt. Both are a lot easier to sort out when you can unscrew the hammer butt.
So one question is what, if anything, one can do about a pressed hammer without removing the pin or axle as Max called it.
Max seems to be in favour of Protek or the local equivalent.
Ian
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Gregor
Full Member
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 326
Loc: Münster, Germany
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Originally Posted By: Mark R.
What does it matter in terms of lubrication whether the hammer uses a butt screw or the center pin is pressed through the bird's eye?
You are right: it does not matter.
Originally Posted By: Withindale
So one question is what, if anything, one can do about a pressed hammer without removing the pin
Nothing, aside from using Protec.
Gregor
piano tech - tuner - dealer
Münster, Germany
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Mark R.
500 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 941
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
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Originally Posted By: Gregor
Nothing, aside from using Protec.
Well, like Ryan mentioned, you could size the bushing using a water-alcohol mixture. It's not an instant fix, and sometimes more than one pass is needed. However, once an oil has been applied to a bushing, and has become a sticky mess, it's difficult to get the water-alcohol mix in there.
I used this method to ease flanges on my own pianos, and it's proved successful. I'll keep an eye on the hammers as summer approaches. I used a plunger syringe with a needle, to aim 2 or 3 drops exactly at the bushing, because I didn't want water all over my action parts.
_________________________
Piano, church organ, viola, tuba.
Beginner technician.
1922 Zimmermann 49" project piano, 1970 44" Ibach.
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partistic
Full Member
Registered: 11/27/10
Posts: 82
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Originally Posted By: Mark R.
I used this method to ease flanges on my own pianos, and it's proved successful. I'll keep an eye on the hammers as summer approaches. I used a plunger syringe with a needle, to aim 2 or 3 drops exactly at the bushing, because I didn't want water all over my action parts.
Did you take all the hammers out one by one and apply the drops directly to the bushings or did you stick the needle between the flange and the hammer butt and just squirted some in there?
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rxd
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I'm out here in the sticks temporarily with poor internet connection so I can't play the videos.
Maxymillian is not referring to vellum hinges by any chance? That would have to be a really old piano.
rXd
Recovering Perfectionist
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Yogi Berra.
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rysowers
Loc: Olympia, WA
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Originally Posted By: Johnkie
Try as I may, I do not feel that someone who posts a link to a video showing such an outlandish "repair" can ever be considered a piano technician. If however, the video was meant as a joke .... I failed to regard it as such. I am always prepared to help anyone if they ask for advice, but when such videos are posted on a technicians forum, I consider it only right to respond to the technician's example of dubious professionalism.
This is a place of sharing and discussion, and condescending remarks only reflect upon the arrogance and intolerance of the responder. I am finding Max's posts fascinating. When would any of us get to see how a Russian Tech approaches his work. By being insulting, you possibly close the door on this opportunity, and everyone loses.
There are many fixes in the past that would not be considered appropriate by today's standards in the U.S. There are some procedures in the U.S today that are considered dubious in Europe.
By the way, Dan Silverwood, I want to thank you for your thoughtful remarks on this thread as well. Cheers!
"The smallest changes are the hardest to make"
Ryan Sowers, RPT
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, Washington
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Withindale
Loc: Suffolk, England
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Originally Posted By: rysowers
This is a place of sharing and discussion, and condescending remarks only reflect upon the arrogance and intolerance of the responder.... By being insulting, you possibly close the door on this opportunity, and everyone loses.... By the way, Dan Silverwood, I want to thank you for your thoughtful remarks on this thread as well.
Why not accentuate the positive, and leave this sort of stuff unsaid? We went to some trouble to clean up this thread yesterday!
Ian
Edited by Withindale (08/24/11 12:07 PM)
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#1739659 - 08/24/11 12:22 PM
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Withindale
Loc: Suffolk, England
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Originally Posted By: rysowers
I am finding Max's posts fascinating. When would any of us get to see how a Russian Tech approaches his work.
BTW Have you noticed Max has posted umpteen other videos on YouTube?
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Maximillyan
Full Member
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 74
Loc: KZ
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Originally Posted By: Gregor
Originally Posted By: Mark R.
In all of the hammer designs that I have seen, the actual "hinge" motion happens between
1) a metal pin (centre pin) and
2) one or more a cloth bushings that sit in the flange or other mounting part.
I am not sure if I got all that discussion right (due to my poor English). But I think we are talking about a design without hammer butt screws (Plättchenschraube in German). Not so unusual for cheap pianos.
Gregor
Thank Gregor it is "a design without hammer butt screws "
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A=440
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Maximillyan
Loc: KZ
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Originally Posted By: accordeur
Originally Posted By: BDB
To be fair, we do not know what sort of lubricant was used. If the original poster used some sort of translation service, or even a Russian-English dictionary, whatever he used may have been translated as machine oil.
I have an extra bottle of protek that I would gladly send him.
Thank accordeur for extra bottle of protek. But send not it is necessary. I shall search for wonder-working protek in Kazakhstan
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A=440
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Maximillyan
Full Member
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 74
Loc: KZ
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Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Originally Posted By: daniokeeper
Originally Posted By: BDB
To be fair, we do not know what sort of lubricant was used. If the original poster used some sort of translation service, or even a Russian-English dictionary, whatever he used may have been translated as machine oil.
Maximillyan does seems like a good person and a knowledgeable technician.
Like BDB and the other folks here have posted, the issue was probably with the translation.
My Russian is not great but in the video I clearly hear "machine oil".
Ваш русский очень хорош. Да, действительно машинное масло!
Kees
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A=440
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UnrightTooner
Loc: Bradford County, PA
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I think Max is doing what he can with what he has, like the rest of us, and should be commended for it!
Max: I doubt you will find any protek in Kazakhstan. It is made specifically for pianos. Reconsider accordeur's kind offer.
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
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Johnkie
Loc: England
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Never mind not having Protek on hand .. what about doing the job properly by re-centering the hammer ? If he hasn't got centre pins then perhaps we should offer to send some, rather than encourage such shoddy work arounds.
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 45 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
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UnrightTooner
Loc: Bradford County, PA
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Originally Posted By: Johnkie
Never mind not having Protek on hand .. what about doing the job properly by re-centering the hammer ? If he hasn't got centre pins then perhaps we should offer to send some, rather than encourage such shoddy work arounds.
Great idea, go ahead and do it!
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
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rysowers
1000 Post Club Member
Registered:
Loc: Olympia, WA
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Max,
Another approach to the repair is to apply alcohol (Pure Vodka works great) and water to the hammer flanges. I use a 50/50 solution. It will swell the felt and wood, and after it dries the part will be looser. I let it dry overnight, but if the air humidity is high it may need a couple days to completely dry.
I agree with others that the machine oil can cause serious problems after a period of time. The beauty of the alchohol/water treatment is it doesn't leave any contamination in the parts.
Thanks for sharing your videos!
_________________________
"The smallest changes are the hardest to make"
Ryan Sowers, RPT
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, Washington
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Maximillyan
Loc: KZ
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Originally Posted By: accordeur
Originally Posted By: BDB
To be fair, we do not know what sort of lubricant was used. If the original poster used some sort of translation service, or even a Russian-English dictionary, whatever he used may have been translated as machine oil.
I have an extra bottle of protek that I would gladly send him.
Thank accordeur for extra bottle of protek. But send not it is necessary. I shall search for wonder-working protek in Kazakhstan
_________________________
A=440
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Maximillyan
Full Member
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 74
Loc: KZ
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Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Originally Posted By: daniokeeper
Originally Posted By: BDB
To be fair, we do not know what sort of lubricant was used. If the original poster used some sort of translation service, or even a Russian-English dictionary, whatever he used may have been translated as machine oil.
Maximillyan does seems like a good person and a knowledgeable technician.
Like BDB and the other folks here have posted, the issue was probably with the translation.
My Russian is not great but in the video I clearly hear "machine oil".
Ваш русский очень хорош. Да, действительно машинное масло!
Kees
_________________________
A=440
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DoelKees
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Max, my Russian is really bad, believe me.
Can you comment on this clip of yours? Did you make this tuning hammer yourself? How do you like it compared to a normal tuning hammer?
Cheers,
Kees
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UnrightTooner
3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 3153
Loc: Bradford County, PA
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I think Max is doing what he can with what he has, like the rest of us, and should be commended for it!
Max: I doubt you will find any protek in Kazakhstan. It is made specifically for pianos. Reconsider accordeur's kind offer._________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
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Johnkie Loc: England
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Never mind not having Protek on hand .. what about doing the job properly by re-centering the hammer ? If he hasn't got centre pins then perhaps we should offer to send some, rather than encourage such shoddy work arounds.
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 45 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
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Mark R.
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
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Originally Posted By: Gregor
Nothing, aside from using Protec.
Well, like Ryan mentioned, you could size the bushing using a water-alcohol mixture. It's not an instant fix, and sometimes more than one pass is needed. However, once an oil has been applied to a bushing, and has become a sticky mess, it's difficult to get the water-alcohol mix in there.
I used this method to ease flanges on my own pianos, and it's proved successful. I'll keep an eye on the hammers as summer approaches. I used a plunger syringe with a needle, to aim 2 or 3 drops exactly at the bushing, because I didn't want water all over my action parts.
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partistic
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Originally Posted By: Mark R.
I used this method to ease flanges on my own pianos, and it's proved successful. I'll keep an eye on the hammers as summer approaches. I used a plunger syringe with a needle, to aim 2 or 3 drops exactly at the bushing, because I didn't want water all over my action parts.
Did you take all the hammers out one by one and apply the drops directly to the bushings or did you stick the needle between the flange and the hammer butt and just squirted some in there?
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Mark R.
500 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 941
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
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The first time round, I removed some hammers to familiarize myself with this method, i.e. to see the effect of 1 vs. 2 vs. 3 drops, or 1 vs. 2 passes, by doing the "swing test" after drying.
Now that I have a pretty good idea, I just stick the needle into the action with the hammers installed - either between the flange and the butt, or if both hammers need treatment, between adjacent flanges.
I've found that the number of drops doesn't make such a big difference as the number of passes (with drying inbetween).
The test that I use is, with the action in the piano, to take each wippen though let-off slowly. If the hammer falls away from the string after let-off, I leave the bushing alone. If it stays at the let-off position and only falls back once I release the key/wippen, I note its number. After checking all the notes, I remove the action, and for each butt that I noted, I first check the butt spring, and if this is OK, I ease the bushing. (That's just my personal test, but I've found that it works for me.)
[Edit: this test is meant for uprights. I expect a grand hammer would drop after let-off, even if its flange was much too tight.]
Edited by Mark R. (08/26/11 09:11 AM)
Edit Reason: given in post
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#1740855 - 08/26/11 08:23 [Re: Mark R.]
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partistic
Full Member
Registered: 11/27/10
Posts: 82
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Originally Posted By: Mark R.
I used this method to ease flanges on my own pianos, and it's proved successful. I'll keep an eye on the hammers as summer approaches. I used a plunger syringe with a needle, to aim 2 or 3 drops exactly at the bushing, because I didn't want water all over my action parts.
Did you take all the hammers out one by one and apply the drops directly to the bushings or did you stick the needle between the flange and the hammer butt and just squirted some in there?
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#1740884 - 08/26/11 09:09 AM [Re: Maximillyan]
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Mark R.
500 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 941
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
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The first time round, I removed some hammers to familiarize myself with this method, i.e. to see the effect of 1 vs. 2 vs. 3 drops, or 1 vs. 2 passes, by doing the "swing test" after drying.
Now that I have a pretty good idea, I just stick the needle into the action with the hammers installed - either between the flange and the butt, or if both hammers need treatment, between adjacent flanges.
I've found that the number of drops doesn't make such a big difference as the number of passes (with drying inbetween).
The test that I use is, with the action in the piano, to take each wippen though let-off slowly. If the hammer falls away from the string after let-off, I leave the bushing alone. If it stays at the let-off position and only falls back once I release the key/wippen, I note its number. After checking all the notes, I remove the action, and for each butt that I noted, I first check the butt spring, and if this is OK, I ease the bushing. (That's just my personal test, but I've found that it works for me.)
[Edit: this test is meant for uprights. I expect a grand hammer would drop after let-off, even if its flange was much too tight.]
Edited by Mark R. (08/26/11 09:11 AM)
Edit Reason: given in post
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#1741237 - 08/26/11 08:54 PM Re: Maximillyan]
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TunerJeff
Junior Member
Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 13
Loc: Oregon Coast
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Dear Folks,
When pressed to try shrinking the bushings with alcohol, I reach for a product called 'Everclear'. A distilled grain neutral spirit, which some insane people actually drink, it is 190-proof. That is 95% PURE alcohol, kids. I use it as a solvent, rather than drinking it these days. Just consider that your standard isopropul alcohol is only about 80 or 90-proof.
When younger, and more stupid, used to pour in a shot-glass and light it for 5 or 6 seconds, snuff it out, and then drink the shot. Pretty blue....
Smiling,
_________________________
Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff@aol.com
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#1741253 - 08/26/11 09:32 PM [Re: Maximillyan]
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rysowers
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 1726
Loc: Olympia, WA
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Jeff,
You must not have had the long beard when you had those flaming shots around!!
Great balls of fire!
_________________________
"The smallest changes are the hardest to make"
Ryan Sowers, RPT
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, Washington
www.pianova.net
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Maximillyan
Full Member
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 74
Loc: KZ
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Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Max, my Russian is really bad, believe me.
Can you comment on this clip of yours? Did you make this tuning hammer yourself? How do you like it compared to a normal tuning hammer?
Cheers,
Kees
Thank DoelKees,its very right about You say.Alas sting that I can not answer this correct question on my bad english. Can You someone will be able to translate my article about universal tuning hammer . In my job I not only tuning, but as well as repair realize nest of pinblock. I consider that hammer must be such. Let tuner will not comfortable work.The" Piano" will say thank you therefore that resource s pinblock for a long time will good
Универсальный ключ для настройки фортепиано.
В связи с тем, что в постсоветском пространстве сложилась критическая ситуация с обслуживанием и ремонтом фортепиано, предлагаю Вашему вниманию некий совет по приобретению своего ремонтно-настроечного ключа. Ни для кого не секрет, что и в советское время настройка пианино, являлась темой закрытой, непонятной для простого потребителя и «ставила» клиента перед неотвратимой дилеммой приглашать для настройки специалиста, если таковой был, или до конца дней играть на «кислых фортепианах» (И. Тургенев).
В данной статье мне бы не хотелось бы, затрагивать сложную и подчас необъяснимую систему этих взаимоотношений: настройщик-клиент. Владелец советского инструмента в большинстве случаев имеет весьма поверхностные знания о работе и качестве собственного пианино. Настройщик, вызванный устранить какие-либо дефекты, не всегда имеет необходимую квалификацию и специальное оборудование. Хорошо, когда, приглашённому мастеру удаётся настроить подобный «шедевр музсовпрома». И, клиент доволен, что инструмент зазвучал. Клиент, имея собственные представления о работе мастера, считает, что заплатил за услугу дорого. Настройщик считает, что ЭТО стоит, по его мнению, гораздо дороже, постоянно сетует на собственную бедность и непонимание людей.
В настоящее время непонимание усугубляется ещё и тем, что в небольших городках и сёлах, по причине отсутствия сервисной службы, хорошо если кто-то вообще практикует, складывается ситуация полного отсутствия какой-либо информации по предмету и хотя бы приблизительных расценок на данный вид услуг. В полном неведении по этому вопросу остаются районные центры и города. Причина банальна, СССР полностью разрушен, а «нового государства», со всеми его функциями, увы, пока, что-то не видно. Родители, искренне желающие, чтобы их чадо постигало чарующий мир искусства, лишь ограничиваются покупкой б/у пианино. В некоторых случаях это пианино, когда-нибудь и кем-нибудь, якобы настраивается. Ребёнок оказывается заложником некомпетентных взрослых и плохого качества своего инструмента. Часто подобное противоречие приводит к отторжению желания ребёнка в обучении музыке. Финансовая сторона, конечно же, в этом вопросе главная, но не всегда. Предположим, что родителям, имеющим необходимые средства, удалось приобрести технически исправное пианино, однако, если его не отрегулировать, то как было сказано раньше, толку от занятий на нём не будет. И, вот тут то и возникает извечный русский вопрос: «Что делать?»
Далее, речь пойдёт о том, как быть в сложившейся ситуации, когда у Вас дома стоит пианино, но правильно «играть отказывается». Вам не остаются нечего другого, если настройщика нет и, в ближайшей перспективе, не предвидится, как настроить его для занятий самостоятельно, естественно, если у Вас имеются хотя бы зачатки музыкального слуха, и Вы представляете себе, как это делается в принципе. Самое главное, с чего необходимо начать, так это изготовить настроечный ключ. Дело в том, что я бы не советовал, покупать заводской ключ, который в руках опытного настройщика более удобен, однако, вследствии наличия некоторых конструктивных недостатков, может стать причиной необратимых повреждений колка. Вам необходимо обслуживать собственный инструмент и нет необходимости тратить деньги за дорогостоящий ключ, который нужен профессионалу-ремонтировщику.
Нельзя пробовать подстраивать неправильные звуки при помощи пассатижей или каких-либо других приспособлений. Так, как в моей практике бывали случаи, когда папаши брали в руки пассатижи и пытались настроить инструмент. Результат, увы, как правило, отрицательный. Ноты, звучащие не верно, так и не стали выдавать нужного тона, а колок, то есть специальный стержень, на котором зафиксирована струна, к сожалению, оказывается поврежденным. На такой колок отказывается «лезть» профессиональный ремонтный ключ и стоит большого труда его демонтировать и вновь установить в рабочее положение.
Так с чего же начать? Либо Вы находите колок нужного размера идентичный колку, установленному на Вашем инструменте, или при помощи обычного накидного гаечного ключа, естественно, предварительно освободив колок от струны, выкручиваете САМЫЙ крайний (справа) колок на собственном инструменте. Второе предпочтительнее, так как ключ, изготовленный по колку из Вашего пианино, будет наиболее качественно и безболезненно работать для всех колков. Имея в наличии колок, Вам необходимо обратиться на завод, который занимается кузнечно-прессовыми работами и термической обработкой металлов. В задании нужно указать, чтобы ключ был изготовлен по форме колка. Главная техническая характеристика ключа: желательна хромоникелевая сталь типа 18ХНВА, либо нечто подобное по характеристикам. Ключ должен быть изготовлен с небольшой «слабиной» между рабочими гранями ключа и колком. После изготовления ключ должен быть подвергнут термической обработке до твёрдости рабочих граней не менее180 HRC.
Важна и геометрия ключа. Для начала Вам нужно изготовить ключ, диаметр головки которого чуть больше размера грани колка, буквально на 0,5-1,0 мм. Прочность и твёрдость которого, если он был изготовлен по моим рекомендациям, вполне обеспечат настройку Вашего инструмента и он «подойдёт» ко всем колкам, даже в тех местах, где расстояние между колками совсем малое. Я в своей практике ремонтных работ использую несколько подобных ключей с увеличенным диаметром головки, но это уже следующий этап вашей «профессиональной» подготовки, как настройщика.
В чём же существенное преимущество, изготовленного таким способом ключа, над так называемым «классическим» или «шведским»? Дело в том, что в нашей ситуации, изготовленный по колку ключ решит проблему не только настройки (темперации звуков), но и позволит осуществлять некоторые эпизодические ремонтно-восстановительные работы. А именно, замены порванных струн и укрепление строя. Наш ключ, обладая высокими прочностными качествами и твёрдыми гранями, способен обеспечить полноценный контакт с колком, исключает даже незначительное механическое повреждение внешних граней колка, смятие его граней, так как его рабочие поверхности имеют контакт со всей конусной головкой колка, а не с местным, небольшим его участком, как у стандартных ключей, при работе которыми, вследствии значительных усилий, приложенных к ограниченному участку колка, не исключаются некоторые остаточные деформации и повреждения граней колка. Внутренние грани «нашего» ключа полностью повторяют стандартные размеры колков, изготовлены на конус. То есть, кроме долговечности, он ещё и универсальный, так как подойдёт для настройки любого инструмента, головка ключа безболезненно обеспечит необходимую фиксацию с колками любого размера, которые незначительно разнятся у разных инструментов.
Заказывайте, изготовляйте ключ по предложенному мною способу и овладевайте знаниями по настройке пианино. Если при изготовлении ключа будут соблюдены все, описанные ранее характеристики, и Вам «медведь на ухо не наступил», то хороший строй Вам обеспечен! Работу с таким ключом можно посмотреть здесь:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j-2cvK8hKA
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#1741996 - 08/28/11 11:10 AM Re: Repair of naughty hammer piano(Soviet hammer piano) [Re: Maximillyan]
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Maximillyan
Full Member
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 74
Loc: KZ
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Thank texnicks masters of piano for participation in debates.Much it is correct that film has caused much useful critics and technical advice beginning tuner on service hammerbank.However I have done the clip for former Soveit of the simple person, who has certain technical experience. He then will be able to solve a problem not inviting master.
1. I not agree that oil or alcohol(small quantity) can cause deterioration in functioning(working) the mechanism
2. That I do in the clip its wrong. But this reality
3. My actions have short-term and emergency nature
4. I have good advices from master of Our forum now
IN GOD WE TRUST
Respectfully yours, Maximillyan
Edited by Maximillyan (08/28/11 11:11 AM)
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DoelKees
500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 873
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Hello Max,
I was able to understand most of what you wrote using Google translate, I'm sure other members can do the same. (I'd be happy to paste the translation here is anyone request it.)
It is sad that your country with such a strong tradition in music is in this situation. It is great you are trying to help the poor who have the culture to want to play piano but have no money to tune/maintain it.
Cheers,
Kees
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#1742363 - 08/28/11 11:18 PM Re: Repair of naughty hammer piano(Soviet hammer piano) [Re: DoelKees]
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Maximillyan
Full Member
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 74
Loc: KZ
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Originally Posted By: DoelKees
It is great you are trying to help the poor who have the culture to want to play piano but have no money to tune/maintain it.
Hello DoelKees very pleased Your words of support and understanding. To my regret I already repeat not was able qualitative to translate into english of my article about homemade tuning hammer . In Kazakhstan problem with tuning hammer not only, but also with texnicks tuners. So I call to technically literate people made homemade tuning hammer.Let people by itself try to correct their own own piano
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#1742371 - 08/28/11 11:27 PM Re: Repair of naughty hammer piano(Soviet hammer piano) [Re: DoelKees]
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Maximillyan
Full Member
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 74
Loc: KZ
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Originally Posted By: DoelKees
(I'd be happy to paste the translation here is anyone request it.)
If this not it is difficult this do for me. I shall very pleased thanked for such translation of my article
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#1742389 - 08/29/11 12:06 AM Re: Repair of naughty hammer piano(Soviet hammer piano) [Re: Maximillyan]
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DoelKees
500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 873
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Originally Posted By: Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
It is great you are trying to help the poor who have the culture to want to play piano but have no money to tune/maintain it.
Hello DoelKees very pleased Your words of support and understanding. To my regret I already repeat not was able qualitative to translate into english of my article about homemade tuning hammer . In Kazakhstan problem with tuning hammer not only, but also with texnicks tuners. So I call to technically literate people made homemade tuning hammer.Let people by itself try to correct their own own piano
I understand and think it's a great initiative, especially since you obviously are not going to make money off those people you are trying to help. I hope the masters here will give you good feedback to improve your youtube instructions.
Best,
Kees
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